What about a shower during storm, same as indoor pool or not?

Michael Koerner Oct 30 (6 days ago)

to fdbowe2 Many may not weigh heavily on being struck by lightning in an indoor pool. But it does not mean it can not happen. There have been people struck by lightning in there house, this is a force of nature. A GPS may determine where you are located within a foot on the earth. There is nothing saying exactly where lightning will strike. If there was we would not need electrical power plants or solar power we would use lightning. Go conservative, in the land of lawsuits where "caution contents in this coffee cup may be hot" shutting down a pool for safety is the right thing to do. It is really nice to use common sense over scientific studies or myth's when it is the right thing to do.

Get out of the pool, remain in the building, wait for the storm to pass. Perhaps no one has been killed in an indoor pool in a hundred years....because they get out of the pool.

I am old school, so my thought is better safe than sorry. Leave the pool, because nothing man made is 100% guarenteed.

Competent persons need to complete a risk assessment!

I really don't know where Dr.Hardin-Fanning has gotten the idea that the NEC is the the governing entity that requires people to leave the pool area. However, as I get older and hopefully, more wiser, I, myself would get to somewhere I would feel was safer for myself than taking a risk. Experience has taught me to not trust anything in life 100%. Call me old fashion, but, I truly believe that there is a thin line between courage and stupidy, and knowing where that line is, is paramount in life.

The National Electrical Code (NEC) requires electrical systems in buildings, and especially pool shells and the metal around pools to be electrically bonded together. If the electrical wiring/grounding in the aquatic facility meets code, this indoor area is probably safer than within many buildings.

The only danger from electricity, be it lighting or any other source, is voltage potential between objects which a person is near or in contact with. Any stray earth current from a lighting strike outside or to the building would cause all of the surfaces to rise and fall to the same level. This ?bird on a wire? phenomenon makes it safer than in the typical building. A possible exception would be if the pool shell were non-metallic, and therefore did not have the bonded rebar/metal shell of a common pool.

Closing a pool cannot be a violation of the NEC, but it certainly should be an OSHA violation. To close an indoor pool during an electrical storms takes the patrons from an especially well protected indoor environment, and places them more at risk elsewhere - especially if they must go outside to leave !

Mike,

The quotes in the links by Dr. Vicki Weiss are totally wrong where this person states that it is a violation of NEC Art 250.4(A)(1)to close an indoor pool for lightning. The NEC is an installation code and has nothing at all to do with public or private policy regarding pool closings during lighting storms.

I posed the question of whether an indoor pool should be closed when lightning is nearby to one of my former professors, Dr.Uman, who is one of the world?s leading authorities on lightning. Here is what he said:

"That is a hard question to answer. In principle, one would not need to close the pool if all possible voltages on the metalwork, lights, etc. were properly bonded and grounded. The problem is , one cannot count on that, and since lightning will raise all voltages to a high level even with code grounding, there could still be voltage differences present to drive current through bodies. The danger in an indoor pool, I think, is drowning after a shock, rather than electrocution. I'd close the pool. Martin"

Martin A Uman Distinguished Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering 311 Larsen Hall University of Florida Gainesville, FL 32611

Frivolous Lawsuit fear.

In my opinion, there are too many variables to make an all-inclusive and universal rule for indoor swimming facilities and lightning. It's very difficult to explain or prove a negative or find evidence in absence. We have the same problem with proving the effectiveness of GFCIs, AFCIs, and TR receptacles.

Take for instance the fact that the CPSC has not reported a single injury or death as a result of a lightning strike to an indoor swimming facility. Is that true because it is safe to swim indoors during a storm or is because people get out of indoor pools during storms so injury and death is not likely to occur. If we were to change that policy and say swimming at indoor pools is safe, would the occurrence of injury and death start to rise? Why take that chance?

Sometimes, safety rules and safety equipment need to be seen as an insurance policy. None of us want to get sick, in a car accident, or electrocuted. So, we have insurance polices to protect against those "what-ifs" in life. We all agree that rules should not be placed in the code based on what-ifs unless there is compelling evidence the absence of at that rule has led to loss of life or property. Many of our current code rules are based on the premise that something bad is likely to occur in the future but not necessarily guaranteed to occur.

The same holds true for lightning safety. I feel this quote from the NLSI white paper sums it up nicely:

"There is a built-in conflict between indoor pool activities and lightning safety. Both recreational swimming and competitive swimming events are based upon three icons of *Entertainment*, Health, and Pleasure. Lightning safety is founded on stopping all those forms of enjoyment. A Risk Management/Safety Professional will err on the side of caution every time and will be found harmless from allegations or claims of negligence. Such a conservative approach will find many objectors. Safety, however, is the prevailing directive."

This legend led my family to cancel membership at an aquatics center, traveling to it and finding out pool was closed because of pending storms. Living in the Midwesr, storms are often in the summer months.

" Indoor pool closures during electrical storms is a violation of the NEC section 250.4 (A)(1) according to Vicki Weiss, Ph.D. "

Seriously ? Where did Vicki get that information ?

It may just be a matter of common sense to get out of the pool. I personally don't feel safe taking a bath or shower when there is massive lighting going on outside. If it can explode all the TV's, Computers, and everything else in the house, we know it will look for us too!

i don't know where most of these 'theories" come from. if this was such a danger, we all would have been killed as children.

Two conspiracy theory oriented newsletters in a row, first the noisy transformer, now this.

What is up? Stayed up late watching old X Files episodes?

All pool lighting should be replaced with low voltage LED lighting. Line voltage lighting is passe, and dangerous.

I think that lightning may not strike if the indoor pool is situated inside the concrete building. There could be a possibility if it is built inside a house built with wooden or any other insulation material( without adequate shielding shielding and grounding).As most of you know lightning is a flow of current between the charged clouds and the earth. (more details about lightning could be provided if further interested).achuthan@presevi.in is the mail ID.