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Looks hokey to me. The number of wires on that pole looks more like intercity instead of in the country 8 miles from any amenities. The sound is close to a white noise generator that my wife uses sometimes when she sleeps. gedens
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I am unable to view video at work, but I have a question:
Does the noise increase with humidity?
Check this link: http://www.eeh.ee.ethz.ch/uploads/tx_ethpublications/roero_ISH2005_tonal_noise_emission.pdf
Mark Prairie
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Reply from: Sandaura
Hello Mark,
Thank you for your question. I have read where humidity has an effect on lines. There are times where the power of the frequencies are more intense to the point of nausea and disorientation. Something that has been overlooked in our information is that we have a pad mounted transformer about 350feet from our home. It is a 25kva and services one family, who are second home owners. It is resonating a 60Hz and subharmonic resonance in our home. We live where this is a lot of rockledge. It is a rumbling, tumbling resonance vibrating in our home constantly.
The noise is constant through all types of weather conditions. It sounds like a siren because of its steady tone, while there are overlays of modulating tones and oscillation. We never get any relief from it and the pattern is the same every morning between 3am on te power of it is increased and it wanes between and 10am and 11am. A gentleman who came here to investigate due to his own curiousity said he had been in, between 50-60 homes, relating to emf and rf issues. He slept here two nights.
HIs Rf and emf sensitivity has up until his visit to our home was strictly the reaction to these fields by feeling it. He had never experienced the acoustical. After two nights he said he would not take a million dollars if asked to sleep here another night. He said that of all the homes he has visited on a scale of 1 to 10 the pollution here is a 10. I observed his demeanor; the longer he was exposed, the more agitated he became.
He was here to help us in what every way he could. He used a consumer grade RF meter, made in Germany. When he touched my thermostats we could hear, as clear as day, an airport radio controller, a Spanish speaking and Christian radio shows. He got a lot of buzzing and interference on the AM radio walking around the neighborhood. I also get a lot of interference on my AM radio on the 530 band.
It gets very intense on our Street.
Reply to Sandaura |
Mike, the use of an AM radio is classic and almost a standard tool to use, especially if it as a low quality radio that is easily swamped by e noise. I use one to locate sources of VFD noise. Another thing---lots of e noise is from low energy arcing between the many wires on poles that are not current carrying items, like guy wires. These things are indifferently grounded and even if grounded, they are not bonded together. Ground is a relative thing and small stray voltages cause low energy arcing of these wires touching each other. The AM radio picks this up right away. No one considers this, in my view. kevin cassidy
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As a compliance engineer, I certify my employer's products to CISPR11, 12, 22,24, and the CFRs that are refered to as 'FCC' (mostly part 15 and 68).
Unless there is empirical data, this is just another example of Bad Science - e.g., cold fusion... Brian
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Reply from: Sandaura
I was told once by a scientist of wood products that when they write their manuals and instructions they literally have to write it in the context of "See Dick run, see Dick catch the ball. See Jane run, see Jane skip down the hill". Because they knew the attention span of the contractors was short and that they were of the mind that they already knew what to do and how to do it; so even the most simplist, explained instructions, chances are ended up on the ground, unread.
My point being. The answers are in the the details of what has already been explained. Taken out of context, just bits and pieces of the story without truly digesting it all, will not serve to have an informed discussion.
Reply to Sandaura |
Completely aside from the claims about DSL, EMFs, etc. I can completely understand being driven batty by ambient noise. About four years ago I moved to a location above a river valley where there is a constant low roar. My theory is that the valley/bluffs serve as a giant amplifier for everything that happens down there. The roar is likely thanks to traffic on the multiple interstate highways in the valley. Also, there is a large railyard in the valley about three miles from my house (I live about a mile from the top of the bluffs): I can hear it when they ram cars together to hook them up. Basically, it is never quiet.
I don’t know if this is the case in every state, but where I am noise is a nuisance regulated by the state pollution control agency. In my experience, noise can be well past what a reasonable person would perceive as a nuisance threshold, but still be well within PCA limits when it’s actually measured. If Dr. Becker is in a situation where is he is being asked to just live with a nuisance that should be addressed by a regulatory agency, but they can’t or won’t deal with it, I can see some justifiable anger on his part. That said, if his home is that remote the agency probably has much bigger fish to fry, i.e.: cases that affect many more people to a much greater degree.
Joe Bob
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Reply from: Sandaura
Joe Bob,
Dr Becker, I hope is in a nice peaceful place. He has left us. I quoted Dr Becker. He is not the author of the newsletter story.
We have a noise pollution law in Massachusetts. We are the only State that has this law. It is an important one and this has been one of our issues; trying to get this law enforced by our State. They have failed to complete the proper testing for pure tone testing and have not ordered the Utilities to follow proper procedures to do so. We have Pure Tones 24/7 nonstop, as a result of all the RFI and EMR in our outside environment. This is not an issue about a sewer pump, or fan at the neighbors or in our home. I wish it were!!
Reply to Sandaura |
After review of the original post and the reply posts i offer the following.
1. I agree with the posts by Bob & Charles.
2. I believe one of the easiest ways to track this down is to eliminate potential sources by removing them one at a time until the noise hopefully ceases. (a)Start by observing, monitoring the reported noise. (b) Start turning off circuit breakers in the house main panel beginning with the 2 pole breakers and then the single pole's until all circuits are off finish by opening the main last. (c) Disconnect the telephone line next by unpluging the Jack at the customer interface box or having the phone service tech disconnect the incoming cable completely (d) Next disconnect the cable TV incomming cable at the ground block jack outside the house.
3. If the noise is still present after this you can turn your efforts to locating an outside source for the noise. Those should be fairly easy to determine and locate the direction they are comming from.
4.The list in item #5 are a few things that could be the
outside source. (Don't laugh at the first one because it is a real possibility and was actually the source of a noise problem reported by many residents in a smal town in north Georgia.) The complaint by all was that it was a loud whining noise 24 hours a day coming from a city water pumping located at the river. The noise continued for several months and cost the city considerable time and moneys verifying that all of their electrical pumping equipment and VFD's were operating OK and not the source. The source of that noise was finally identified when all the Locusts finally mated and died. It was the year of the locust.
5. Locust,---High Voltage Transmission Lines nearby,---- Pumping station nearby with VFD's,----Sawmill nearby,---Industrial plant,----or a bad bearing on the earth's axis which God hasn't fixed yet.
Good luck if none of these are the cause.
LL Larry LeSueur CPQ, CBCP
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Reply from: Bob
Great suggestions Larry, please let me add one more consideration. a resonant noise from two different sources, independently not disturbing. You kind of alluded to this by suggesting pumping stations using VFD's. In fact, you may have nailed the problem.
Please give Larry's post consideration. It is highly informative and practical.
Reply to Bob |
How was the noise measured? With a micophone, direct connection of an audio meter to a phone line? Inside the home? Next to the power line junction pole shown? What is meant by "Pure Tones?" Sounds like nothing pure but a combination of frequencies.
thanks
J
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I am continuously amazed at suburban and rural residents who believe that once they have esxtablished their homestead, the advance of civilization should cease. This applies, not only to residents who object to the hum of distribution transformers, but those who think that cell towers that are miles from thier home destroy "their" vista of the mountains. Their is a legitimate claim when a toxic waste dump or a pig farm tries to move next door... but roadways, powerlines, and cell towers serve everyone. One family does not have the right to halt progress because their pristine habitat may be disturbed. Dave
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Reply from: Sandaura
Dave,
You really need to get up to speed. Words can not describe your lack of understand.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: Sandaura
Dave,
We don't live in the same environment that we lived in 5 to 10 years ago. Do you think there is no justification for impact studies, limits, regs, oversight and enforcement of RF radiation and what it is doing to all living things?
What century are you living in? Do you have children?
If is your responsiblity to stay informed and question????
Through our experience of what we are currently going through; it has been such an education on so many levels. The human nature part of it is the most disturbing. If it isn't happening to you, such as Dave it isn't happening or I (HE) just doesn't want to know about it. We have been validated by retired NASA engineers, scientists, who fully know and understand the impact of what Radio frequencies can do to living things. I have lived in cities where there is noise. This is much more complex and insidious. When acoustic, coupled with emr and RF radiaiton is resonating and modulating in your living space 24/7. Then you can comment with some degree of understanding. I would not wish this on anyone.
Reply to Sandaura |
I think that I read somewhere that a problem with early generation large windmills was that they made a lot of aerodaynamic noise but at a much lower volume than a helicopter. What I have heard is that it took a lot of tinkering get large wildmill blades to go around without creating loud whooshing noises, Michael R. Cole
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All "health issues" regarding electricity, I dont mind a bit, since most are unsubstantiated. However, the author did point out that their utility is delivering "dirty power". Since there was no mention how the test was conducted, I cannot side with anyone in this issue. However, I would like to point out that harmonics in the power system is everybody's concern, not just the homeowners, not just the utilities. If the people concerned worked towards solving this problem, most of the other issues would be solved as well. Robbie Tan
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Reply from: Sandaura
The Dranetz testing was evaluated by 3 different PQ
engineers and the determinations are conclusive that the utiliity company is delivery dirty power.
Reply to Sandaura
Reply from: Bob
Robbie. harmonics is a serious issue but all my reading on the subject indicates to me that it is a user issue. There are no harmonics on the utility's high voltage side. Basically we can describe what electricity will do when it encounters resistance, inductance and capacitance with a mathematical tool called the linear differential equation. These are nice simple well behaved equations. However, when the load consists of semiconductors, capacitors and inductors ohms law and these linear equations don't describe everything. Electricians are familiar with kick back voltage from a coil but this is not a harmonic. A Harmonic is a multiple of a given frequency. When peak voltages of these frequencies coincide we no longer well behaved current. RMS and peak voltages swing way out of normal range and become severely distorted from the sine wave. Harmonics can affect other users on the load side of the utility's step down transformer but cannot jump from secondary to primary and affect the high voltage side of the utility's lines. Older neutrals were often undersized assuming balanced loads but these will overheat when harmonics are present. The NEC addresses this. Also, older power factor moderating capacitors can make harmonic problems worse.
Reply to Bob Reply from: Bob
Before someone jumps on me about it. Yes I did fail to mention arc producing equipment as a harmonic source. There may be others but the non linear loads are the most general cause.
Reply to Bob |
Charlie Kanjecki, District Health Officer from Northampton, Ma is someone who would be defending the people who have ignored our pleas for help and would have a vested interest in discrediting me and my family. If it is you Charlie, then shame on you because if you were truly informed about this situation you would know that your colleague at the Department Of Public Health in Boston believes that are serious problems here and is in the process of getting the case re opened.
The evidence he has in his possession proves the Utilities are the source or sources. The DEP has failed to complete the proper pure tone testing according to the MA NOISE POLLUTION LAWS. This is way over your head. Sandaura
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Reply from: Carol
I know the authorities or at least the civilian aspect don`t know what they are measuring:
This comes under EMC Law (electromagnetic compatibility). Even those people who are complaining about the the hazards still measure this energy in Hertizian energy whereas: It has little to do with it.
We are dealing with quantum forces not low level radiation.. The military close down wind turbines which run on this so called green or non-hertzian energy they give off so much radiation that they interfere with RaDAR
at any height.. I`ve contacted Lord Hutton several times about the levels of radiation.. Our governments have one rule for the public at large and one rule for the MoD
Trading Standards in the UK have been given the legisation to close factories and other placed using poorly controlled devices. But they think jobs are better than health and safety.
They are supposed to buy in experts. The problem the experts don`t know what their using.
However the aircraft as well as the pharmacuitical industry along with the aircon know these system work on whats called a reverse polarity system scalar waves
because systems are too large to test. The people who install the eqauipment are basicing knowledge on a car engine rather than tesla technology or rife..
Changes in polarity stop what we call modern technology from earthing so the electrostatic energy builds up.
This energy works more on light and has been wrongly thought as low level radiation.. A slip of the tongue and a loss of info. around the 1930`s has allowed main stream science to use changing terminology.
It like using the word Blue.. Blue means sad.. But it is also a color and a temperature..
Low level radiation is being read in the wrong polarity or phase... It should be read from the south polarity not the north as we traditionly do.. Its been lost.
Even mathmatics would give an understand new technology are over powered for the size...
They suffer badly from talk back..
Its essentualy what`s called industry Stealth technology
as you well know a stealth plane can not be detected by radar only by the heat of its engine...
For something that normally goes undeteded in order for it to be detected it needs to be unmasked or decoded
to have a chance of fining it with a meter....
Implant technology and hearing research know this technology cause health issues.. But they don`t want to talk about it... In fact doctors go out of their way not to help or draw the power together. Here in part the NHS must have some infulence along with the government its turning a blind eye.. NHS equipment does not have to comply to BSI standards.
MRI machines don`t comply to EMC/BSI but the HSE is turning a blind eye.
Reply to Carol
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electricity is power to us. You use it every day for a job household use ect..Believe me your thoughts are somewhat parinoid. This is by no means new and for the most part has been maybe better than the past. Is the noise coming for outside? (have utiliy check arestors connections,tracking, friend down the road, ect.) Inside? (check connections, loads, dimmers.) call in a good electrician. I seen a stupid dimmer make noise on a whole block. Don't fury your utility.Electricity Is To Taken For Granted use it safely.
An AM band radio may be a usefull tool to sniff it out. DO YOU PART
Thanks,
pete
electrian 10 years lineman 7 years pete b
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Reply from: Bob
Pete, I thought I was the only one using an AM radio to sniff out problems. Pete has given some great advice. The AM radio should be in every trouble shooters tool box. It's best to pick a frequency that is not picking up a transmission. Then move the radio close to suspected sources and turn it slowly back and forth through a 90 degree arc. It will click on all arcing that is not being metal shielded. Make sure all metal panel covers and plates are open or clear to the circuitry. It will not pick up through metal raceway but if a box cover is removed it will pick up problems inside the raceway. Thanks Pete, for sharing.
Reply to Bob |
As someone who is operative in electromagnetic interference investigation (primarily industrial and research environments), and with a parallel background in environmental health, I too was approached and asked to provide assessment services by the person who submitted this video. She made a strong initial impression, and her story at first sounded credible, but the longer she talked (which was a long time), the more clearly the truth emerged. This is indeed a very confused individual, to put it mildly. I would not dispute that she is experiencing something unpleasant and troubling, but it is unequivocally not what she so strongly claims it to be. There may be an undiscovered acoustic noise source in the vicinity, or there may be an undiagnosed medical or psychiatric condition. However, the lumping together of "dirty electricity", DSL, power frequency magnetic fields, and radio frequency exposure, and the attempt to tie all these to acoustic noise, is beyond the reach of any science-based explanation.
Most (but not all) of the literature references cited by the author are credible, and describe observed interactions of electromagnetic phenomena with human physiology. But they are not supportive or relevant to the experiences she describes. The narrative is simply a large collection of terminology from divergent fields of investigation, used completely out of context, with the hope that enough technical words will make a convincing argument.
As if the above points were not enough to drive away any potential service providers, just look at the very long list of people and organizations that she lists at the end of the video. This crude and blatant shaming of professionals is certainly not the way to elicit sympathy or assistance for one's problem. The only thing these people are guilty of is not allowing themselves to become a part of her problem, whatever that may be. This alone should be sufficient reason to cast this video into the waste bin and stay far, far away. Charles
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Reply from: Bob
I might remark that when someone is MRI imaged that person is subjected to a magnetic field thousands of times stronger than one could get from standing under a power line. The field produced by the MRI comes from super conducting coils. However, RF radiation can certainly be strong enough to kill. A key factor in the danger from EM fields or RF radiation probably is its frequency. A stationary magnetic field can kill- indirectly- by accelerating charged sub atomic particles to high energies.
Reply to Bob Reply from: Sandaura
I don't know who you are Charles, what a coward to state what you have and not acknowledge who you are.
It is abusive and all lies. I don't know you and most certainly we have enough experts that have confirmed serious problems here. You have never been here and you sit there like and judge. It is disgusting. Obviously,
you have the agenda.
We would never put ourselves out to hang to receive such public ridicule if we didn't have serious issues that we are experiencing.
You are indeed the one that is disturbed
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: M. R. Belcik
Charles, you do not know of what you speak..
As a person who has also talked extensively with the family members involved, and one who is interested in these issues, I must speak up for the individual who wrote this plea for assistance and awareness and submitted the video. Let me assure you, this is a complicated issue, and should not be dismissed by someone who has not even been present to observe the problem first hand.
Obviously, the person is not an expert and does not claim to be an expert, and has openly appealed for assistance. There are many scientists, engineers, and RF experts, who have acknowledged the problem and the fact that there is a huge controversy regarding the manner all of these issues intersect and how they impact individuals.
It is easy for individuals like Charles to try and dismiss this individual's telling of the problem, perhaps because this individual is not an expert. Maybe people like Charles get their kicks out of kicking someone when they are down, instead of trying to be helpful. Or perhaps there is some undiagnosed psychological problem that would promote someone to respond in such a way without having any firsthand knowledge, other than a phone call, to do so.
Thankfully there are more than twice as many responses to this family that have been attempts to be helpful and supportive, and many by scientists and other experts with experience/knowledge of EMR. All have at the very least acknowledged there is clearly a problem with acoustic noise, utility side harmonics, and other contributing factors, including RF devices and dsl.
The literature submitted does indeed speak to the varied issues, especially with regard to health impact, and is relevant to the concerns presented, which are primarily health related. Unfortuantely research on these topics is slight, compared to heightened concerns, but it is a growing body of evidence that will shed light on the problem over time.
It is most interesting that a person who spoke with the member(s) of this family but did not personally come to evaluate any aspect of the problem would dismiss it wholly and with such venom, accusing the person(s) and the entire list of wintesses who will attest to their same expereince with this problem. Just because something is beyoind most people's reach, does not mean that the telling of one's experience should be dismissed or labeled as crazy or sick. One would think that a scientist without any agenda would want to know the whole story and be interested in the facts presented, keeping an open mind.
Of course there is an acoustic problem, and through trial and error, certain undeniable conclusions are being reached.
Lastly, if the people listed in the video responded as Charles did without knowing all the facts or taking the time to review them or respond with helpful suggestions then it should be public knowledge when State agencies do not provide the services to tax payers that they are supposed to provide. Why would Charles choose to protect the people on that list that have acted shamefully toward this family? Would Charles feel the patience and forgiveness toward an agency who approved of data that was skewed when plastic wrap was used to cover a measurement tool's. microphone?
Charles, your haste to discard this person and state that you have found "sufficient reason to cast the video in the waste bin and stay far... away" because you feel bad for the people who were named for their failure to provide the assistance they are paid to provide says it all.
There is no point to having any kind of outrage toward an individual who is obviously in a great deal of discomfort due to external factors.
Reply to M. R. Belcik Reply from: Mike Holt
Well said Mr. Belcik.
I find it amazing that any of my readers would dismiss this without first hand knowledge. I allowed the newsletter to be posted because I do believe that there is an issue here and I have a feeling that some might be of some 'help.'
Reply to Mike Holt Reply from: Charles
In responding to this individual's concerns and request for assistance, my goal was to direct her to a service provider who was the most qualified to investigate the problem with objectivity and professionalism, or at the least, to provide a direction for further testing and investigation. When I posed clarifying questions, like what other types of testing have been done, and where was it done, I was told that such questions were not relevant! What could possibly be more relevant? When additional avenues of investigation were suggested, I was told that I do not understand the situation, and am insufficiently knowledgeable to provide recommendations. This is not the behavior of someone who is looking for answers that lead to problem resolution. This is someone who is seeking validation for her own predetermined, and unfounded, conclusion.
Some of the many people listed in the video as failing to perform their duties with integrity are known by me to be competent professionals in their field, with no agenda, hidden or overt. The presumption that those people who work for utilities or public agencies are incompetent, unsympathetic, or engaged in nefarious behavior, is simply untrue, and unsupportable. It belies the anger-driven approach that the author seems to have taken toward this problem. Are we really supposed to accept that all the environmental inspectors, all the utility workers, and all the academics who have examined this situation to date, are all wrong?
Perhaps the most revealing characteristic of the video is the undercurrent of anger, and the author's position that we have been harmed, people are lying about it, and there is a conspiracy to cover it up and suppress our concern. This same anger is present with even greater vehemence in the postings here by Sandaura. Anger and recriminations toward everyone who does not immediately agree in total with your conclusion is not going to speed a resolution of the problem. It will further alienate those who are best positioned to help.
M. R. Belcik correctly states above that "the person is not an expert and does not claim to be an expert". This is the strongest argument that could be made for her to relinquish the need to confirm her own technical conclusions about the nature of the problem, and remain open to those who would sincerely like to provide assistance, even if the conclusions differ from her preconceived notions.
Reply to Charles Reply from: Sandaura
Charles,
I must say, you, you have an eye for the obvious and a blind eye for the truth. Of course, WE meaning, my family and I are frustrated and angry at the FACT that the State agencies, including the utilities have handled this improperly. You, meaning you would have to be an idiot and an insensitive human being not to understand that, given what we are going through of course we are angry, while you overlook why. I am assuming you are Charles, employee of the State of MA as a Health agent and trying to defend your colleagues. They have gotten caught with their pants down and have tried to dismiss us without a proper investigation. National Grid has done everything in their power to disprove a problem and the State Agencies have allowed it, because of budget? unqualified people put in charge of the investigation has led to one big debocle. Again, you are a coward for not coming forward with your name and credentials. Talk to your boss in Boston and he will tell you that the DEP will be on record as stating finally, after a year of avoiding the answer, that the proper testing for pure tones was never completed.
You are misquoting me and you are a liar. I would never say that evidence is not important. We have spent a year gathering evidence and trying to work with people who weren't afraid to getting involved. This has consumed our lives. We presented the DEP with Octave Band measurement results indicating pure tones in our environment. We have a witness list of people who have experienced the nosies and have confirmed this with the Department of Public Health in Boston. We have Dranetz results evaluated by 3 PQ engineers. We have audio recordings taken with a battery operated digital recorder, 96kHz/24 bit resolution and put through a forensic program corroborating the Triple "N" or Triplen harmonics, 180Hz dominant. Our color on our television tube was pulled out, indication of serious EMR, telephone interference on our line that is a 60Hz hum that Verizon is unable to fix. The Verizon tech said it is power line induction. Our lights flicker, we have oscillating and fluxuating tones that sound like a quivering glass harmonic, constantly, non stop interfering with any quality of proper sleep.
It seems to me Charles you are displaying the anger here. Angry at us for exposing all this. We simply want our lives back. We want our property back our peace back as we knew it and for this you have the audacity to sit behind a veil of accusations and lies. Shame on you Charles for even having the word Health to describe your profession. You are a disgrace to your profession.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: JERRY PALMER
Charles, you should be in the diplomatic corps... you are a prince.
aloooha
Jerry
Maui
Reply to JERRY PALMER |
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Mike, this is sort of close to a discussion I have been having lately about the so called power saving devices such as the one made by continental power for residential application. They claim it corrects power factor, provides surge protection, and filters EMF and RF. My position is that this type of device is pure snake oil. I don't think you can have caps and MOVs in the same box, most utility companies charge by KWH so factor correction won't save you any money and I don't think EMF and RF filtering in a home would have much if any benifit. What do you and the other folks out there think of these devices? Jerry Robertson
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: Bob
You are correct in fact and spirit Jerry. Watt meters measure real not apparent power therefore power factor correction does not reduce your bill directly. Unfortunately, some people are trying to measure their power use with CTs on the lines. They associate the the change in amps with more or less power use. Power factor correction does have other benefits but it doesn't directly change the watt meter reading for a given load. There are a number of devices sold to consumers that claim to measure power use when actually they are simply measuring current. But Jerry, people believe what they want to believe or whomever has the best boogy man show. Now we can talk about Wall Street and the banks...
Reply to Bob Reply from: Michael R. Cole
Easy Heat makes a residential power factor correction device but this is sold primarily to get rid of magnetizing current from heat pumps and so forth so that the customer can install floor and sidewalk heating products without necessarily doing a service increase.
Another motive for power factor correction is to make it easier to run a bunch of motors off of a generator. If a generator only has to supply 1/2 of maximum reactive power the voltage regulator will give you better voltage regulation.
There are residential meters that bill for pioor power factor. One of them is a thermal demand meter that uses the thermal ammeter principal to measure total apparent power including reactive power, harmonics, and modulation sidebands from integral cycle heat controllers. For that matter, the General Electric KV2c and KV2c+ single phase meters can bill for reative power and harmonic power or do a combined reading of total apparent power like thermal demand meters do.
Traditionally, only 3-phase users were billed for reactive power because you needed 3-phase or 2-phase power to get the voltage phasing to operate a VAR meter. One of the early reasons for using 2-phase power was that you did not need a bunch of phase shifting transformers to run a VAR meter. However, 3-phase won out because you can use 3-pole instead of 4-pole breakers and fusible switches. Also, 2-phase motors suffer from torque dips and peaks when starting due to nonlinearities in magnetic steel and these nonlinearities can be balanced out in 3-phase motors. The only 2-phase motors that you might actually see anymore are ones that run off of a frequency reducer known as a cycloconverter.
Reply to Michael R. Cole |
I'm not a biolologist or medical professional so I am not qualified to comment on the biological effects of anything. Nevertheless, we know smoking is associated with health damage because simple statistics indicate that. Simple statistics should tell us something about the danger from RF and EM fields. Do the professionals who work around these fields and RF radiation have a higher rate of morbidity or mortality than people who do not?
The statement that the DSL signal travels on the utility's neutral conductor is not true. I can imagine that a DSL signal could be improperly earth grounded but that would be rare. Otherwise, 'dirty power"-power with harmomics, is not the fault of the utility but is caused by the non linear loads of the users.
But, one point is accurate: It is possible to multiplex any number of frequencies-including DC-on any conductor. Any conductor can carry multiple frequencies of power or signals or both as long as any frequency remains below that of deep infra-red light uless the conductor has optical properties. Bob
Reply to this comment |
Although there could very well be a hidden agenda, it is also possible that these are real people suffering from something they do not understand and they go to the internet for answers. Of course they will find all sorts of loony things, but they don't have the knowledge to filter out the junk.
A few factoids:
DSL obviously has nothing to do with this. It runs on the telephone lines and is balanced to ground. If it becomes unbalanced, it would stop working or the performance would be degraded causing a repair call. Even so, the energy level is not high enough to cause any noise.
There is a new internet service called Broadband Over Power Lines. This is experimental and is capable of causing interference to Amateur, commerical, and international broadcast frequencies. I don't know the details of the power levels, but to get radio frequencies down a power line does take some power since the power lines are very inefficient at radio frequencies. Poor connections might cause enough rectification to produce some noise as in the case below of AM broadcast stations, but I wouldn't think it would have enough power to become audible throughout the house.
This experimental technology seems to be failing to get any support and will probably die out due to better options being available.
There have been instances of noise coming from metal objects including household plumbing caused by close proximity to a high power AM broadcast transmitter. Any two metals with poor bonding can act as a detector of AM signals causing them to demodulate and vibrate the metal. I doubt this is the issue, because this normally causes a low fidelity sound that contains the audio the station is broadcasting. I have encountered cases of "singing toilets" and "singing electric stove tops" due to this problem. There are ways to fix it. If there is some other high power transmitter nearby that is sending data, this might be a cause as the noise would be difficult to define.
Of all the posts here, I think the one that suggests it is a noise produced by some failing bearing in machinery may be on to something. If the machinery is attached in any way to the house's plumbing, sound can travel a great distance that way.
My advice would be to find a local Ham or Ham radio group and ask for their help. Usually ham clubs have a few technically knowledgeable people who might be willing to help. If they don't know any, contact the A.R.R.L. and they can point them toward a local club (www.arrl.org).
Chris Hays
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Reply from: Sandaura
Hello, We have contacted the Arrl in CT many times trying to find someone that would come here to measure. I have emailed ham radio organizations all over the USA with my history looking to hire someone.
Reply to Sandaura |
Reply from: Sandaur
We are dealing with it. Isn't that obvious. LOL
Reply to Sandaur |
I can't bring myself to assign much credibility to this video. It sounds like a recording of a white noise generator that has gone through a high pass filter. The fact that the narrator is overdubbed on the first part of the video proves, at least, a minimal alteration of the original recording. The narrator stating that the hissing that you hear and the chaos of noise being caused by "radio frequencies" makes the entire video questionable. Radio frequncies are far to high for humans to hear. Ray
Reply to this comment |
It seems unlikely that one could hear any DSL-generated noise component since DSL operates at frequencies from 25khz - 1.1Mhz. These are well above the range of human hearing, and I suspect any harmonics would be higher still. Further, it's hard to believe that the frequency modulated signals would somehow interact with transmission lines to result in a "pure frequency" that would cause the mechanical vibration necessary to produce sound.
With the exception of a Russian study of personnel exposed to radar (the effects of which are not scientifically disputed), the author's citations primarily consider only low frequency signals of 50 to 60 Hz.
I have heard low frequency tones from power lines, too. It was caused when wind blowing through the long spans vibrated them like guitar strings. The sound might annoy some people, but I doubt there are serious health risks associated with it. Maybe someone should do a study?
Paul Lazorko
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Reply from: sandaura
We agree, there is not adaquate science investigating pure tones and the impact it has on the environment and the health risks it imposes on all living things.
Reply to sandaura Reply from: sandaura
Not talking about wind-related noises here. Powerlines can be conductors for RF frequencies. There are many studies to confirm this.
Reply to sandaura |
"DSL, and all forms of telecommunication, including wireless, must be grounded to the electric utility company's neutral wire to operate." That's a patently false statement. This guy needs better investigators, and a life.
Martin Shoemaker
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Reply from: Sandaura
Your response is typical of someone that has no clue.
Your ignorance regarding our real problems represents the need for further research and honest science into the study of pure tones and RF emissions.
Your insensivitiy to our unfortunate circumstances indicates you have never experienced what we are going through. So you either are just closed minded or you have a vested interest to dismiss the truth.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: Adela Atkin
Hi mikeholt.com administrator, Your posts are always informative and well-explained.
Reply to Adela Atkin |
Well maybe. Marco Polo was laughed at when returned from the far east with tales of rocks that burned.
There is much the same concern with light pollution. Tom Baker
Reply to this comment |
Unfortunately most people have a hidden agenda.The noise on Youtube doesn't sound like electrical noise to me. Too low a frequency. However, there IS a lot more electrical noise in the distribution system than 20 years ago, mainly from motors running (not just starting) on VFDs. Utilities recognize the problem, not because of the annoyance (real) or health (possible) factors but because of the losses and spikes transmitted into the system. Users of large motors running on VFDs have to install harmonic filters to satisfy the utility.
My ceiling fan in the living room is a standard 3 speed unit but I also have a wall mounted speed control. When that is delivering less than line voltage (chopping it with a thyristor) the motor complains very loudly and annoyingly. I don't know if it's a health hazard. To be quite honest, three fixed speeds and direction change would provide more than enough control if I either extended the control strings (simple zero cost solution) or wired all speeds and direction control to an accessible position on the wall (too much work).
The complainant clearly embraces modern technology- she posted a video on Youtube and seems to have DSL. Giving her the benefit of the doubt- is the noise annoying? Seems so, but my snoring is also annoying. Is it a health hazard? Difficult to tell but my wife can at least escape from my snoring by getting up and moving into the guest room for the rest of the night. Is ac more dangerous than dc? Thomas Edison reckoned it was but he had a purely commercial agenda and was a competitor/enemy of Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse.
We have actually reduced electronic pollution by the use of flat screen displays for TVs and computers. I think that the jury is still out regarding high frequencies from DSL, VFDs, electronic ballasts, wireless phones and excessive cell phone use. The problem is getting independent studies carried out. It's easy to go out and buy an $100 instrument to measure RFI and then charge people $50/hr to check out their compact flourescent bulbs and $45 each for 50c plug in filters. I had a neighbour who made a killing in 1999 on the back of the milleneum factor selling generators and software "services". When I told him (in 1999) that it was all BS, he agreed with me. We're back to hidden agendas again. Trevor Armstrong
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Reply from: sandaura
No hidden agenda on our part. All the facts are pretty straightforward and the lack of response from utilities, lack of attempts to mitigate shows disinterest in providing helpful assessments. Perhaps that is where the hidden agenda is. You are right we need more studies, and this is a complex case. We have done extensive work to reduce all other factors including variable speed equipment/dimmers/wireless. etc... And you don't need DSL to subscribe to Youtube. Having it installed in our neighborhood is enough.
Reply to sandaura |
WHAT?? How do we get from DSL to dirty power to audible noise? I think this guys answer is a tin foil hat. Hal Bissinger
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Reply from: Sandaur
This must be way over most of your heads not to grasp there are mulitiple issues we are experiencing.
It is a complex issue that requires knowledge in acoustics, electrical and the RF field. The comments again, reveal that we need to take a serious look at how we need to educate the "expterts", so that responsible evaluation and mitigation can be completed.
The noise recorded is electrical. It is what is radiating on the power lines.
Reply to Sandaur |
I don't think that vid is accurate!! I have to agree with some earlier posts, sounds more like an industrial noise to me or maybe motor noise from the recorder itself. I gotta call" BS" on this one!! Sorry. John Johnson
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: Sandaura
Scarey stuff, I am hearing here. What happen to the purity of scientific study. I have presented evidence of Dranetz monitoring. Do you know what that Is, lol?
Sorry, if you hold a degree in electrical engineering are charging for your services.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: Mike Holt
There is noise there... and it's real.
Reply to Mike Holt Reply from: Jose A.Guillen
Look at the differences taking place without enough scientific evidence more storms/ skin cancer because of wasted ozone layer now it snows in southern california it never did before last year we even had a twister from texas visit us and it turned over a train and a trailer on the 215 freeway near the military base. Electrical radiation emf noise comes in all forms and sizes not enough scientific evidence maybe because we want to ignore to research what some one has discovered. thank you.
Reply to Jose A.Guillen |
Another hysterical mindless subgroup to add to the mindless "man is causing climate change" crowd - probably many of the same nuts involved in both.
Jim Jim Shafer
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: Sandaur
Well, a lot of good will come of all this ignorance. Really
flushing out the idiots here.
Reply to Sandaur Reply from: Mike Holt
Not a group, someone who is afraid... I've spoken to her.
Reply to Mike Holt |
There are likely some pebbles of truth in this long article. Sadly, the author uses so many global statements (which are seldom correct), half truths and emotional "baiting" that I feel compelled to ingnore his discussion. John W (EE)
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: sandaura
The only global statement is that this is happening globally, but our interest is in mitigating our own problem and raising awareness of unregulated issues.
Reply to sandaura |
Reply from: Sandaur
Finally, a comment by someone with common sense, who has not been brainwashed. Thanks
Reply to Sandaur
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So if I own a home with High Tension Power Lines running right behind my house.......my family is in danger of health issues? Ken Smith
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: sandaura
Ken, please read studies to determine your own health risk, but you could have some issues!
Reply to sandaura Reply from: Sandaura
A man called me from Ct. He lives right next to high tension wires and the City built a substation recently in his neighborhood. He has a brain tumor, his wife has bone cancer, his daughter is stricken with migraines and his son has A D D. This is the new modern day RF family. Welcome to reality. This is not paranoia. What
we are experiencing here is not something that was here a few years ago. What we are living with is real and is man made and the utilities are responsible to fix it.
Most lineman are not educated in Power Quality and most electricians don't even know what a Dranetz power monitor is.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: Sandaura
I was contacted by a family in Connecticut who lives next to high tension power lines. The town, most recently put a substation near his home in a residential area.
He told me he has a brain tumor, his wife has bone cancer, his daughter has chronic migraines and his son has ADD. They have faught a legal battle and lost, because they have no rights. There are no laws to protect him and his family against this.
Reply to Sandaura Reply from: Stacy Parks
Dear mikeholt.com admin, Your posts are always on topic and relevant.
Reply to Stacy Parks |
My computer temporarily not playing sounds. Will try later.
What is the frequency of this sound? Knowing that can help find the source.
When induction motors are started using a variable frequency drive to start at low frequency and then ramp up to high frequency, the motor makes a high pitched whine until the rotor starts turning at 15 Hertz ( 1/4 nominal speed ). Michael R. Cole
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: Michael R. Cole
Got my speakers to work. A push on push power button on the side of a speaker messes up when knocking over a speaker.
I cannot really tell you what that noise is but it is NOT a pure tone. Sounds more like industrial noise that is filtered by a hollow read resonant space and I have a lot of industrial experience.
I kind of doubt that this is due to dirty insulators because that sounds more like giant bees.
Reply to Michael R. Cole Reply from: Michael R. Cole
After listening to this more it sounds closer to a bad bearing in a sewage pump or some other rotating equipment. I have a feeling that this noise is mechanical or aerodynamic in origin. If you live near a sewage pump or water pumping station it might just be going right through the pipes in the ground and coming up all over the place.
Reply to Michael R. Cole |
Ok Mike....so your trying for a New Low Point.
I think your watching to many YouTube video's.
Don't have any real work to do??
Come on this is crap, a picture of a pole and noise to go with it.
Let me guess, next week it's the sound of a toilet flushing and a video of it also.
DSL, and all forms of telecommunication, including wireless, are keeping this guy awake......hahaha.
Tell him he needs to change his medication and hit him on the head with a baseball bat and he'll sleep all night.
Only the Lord knows what's next. electroman
Reply to this comment |
Reply from: formula1
sounds like you have researched this area
Reply to formula1 Reply from: Mike Holt
I've spoken to the owners of this video, and this is a real problem. I have a feeling that we'll learn more about this in the future.
Reply to Mike Holt Reply from: sandaura
Another profound comment from the "Miss Link."
Reply to sandaura Reply from: Bob
Let me say one thing is this guy's defense. His interpretations of phenomena are jumbled but he may be describing something of actual concern. I'll give an example: the military uses high power ultra long wave radio that uses the earth as a transmission medium. They also use high powered high frequency pulse devices-digital signals on steroids so to speak. No one who does not have the high security clearance required can investigate just how these signals may be affecting electrical devices-if at all. If they tell you they'll have to...well, you know the rest.
Reply to Bob |
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