I agree with you MIKE. The light is lousy. Some where the blue and white spectrum is missing.

No sense in sending me you tube attachments, my work will not allow me to access the site.

Hmmm. Don't forget to figure in the increased amount of mercury that would have been released into the environment by the power plants by using standard light bulbs for all of those years.

Popular Mechanics had an article showing how the coal burned to light a standard lightbulb produces more mercury than is in a CFL lightbulb. If you don't use CFL, at least turn off all lights whenever possible.

We don't really have time to wait to fix the carbon dioxide glut in the atmosphere. Only the government can push us in the right direction. If your "freedom of choice" is to my physical detriment, then it cannot stand.

I like the CFL. Make sure you get "warm light" not "sunlight" color. They work great.

You definitely get what you pay for with CFLs. Any CFL that is Energy Star rated meets minimum standards for warm up time and will not flicker. Otherwise, sticking with established manufacturers, e.g.: Honeywell, GE, Sylvania, is the best guarantee against getting bulbs that will fail prematurely.

If one's negative opinion of CFLs is based on a no-name brand bulb or an experience a couple of years old, the bulbs are worth a second chance. The quality and variety of CFLs has improved greatly.

The only place I haven't been happy with CFLs is in an outdoor screw-in socket. I had a couple of bulbs fail in extreme cold temperatures (-15F or colder), so I stopped using them outdoors.

I think you are correct in questioning the use of these lamps. There are too many self appointed experts that have all the answers and I find an amazing lack of factual knowlege among the lot. Work in Europe on LED technology has progressed over the past few years and this technology may replace fluorescent in the near future.

Chuck Miller

Mike, I share your frustration.

CFL’s have their place. But many applications do not lend themselves to their usage.

Such as:

Cold temperatures: Sorry folks, but it gets a whole lot colder here in Iowa than it does in Florida so CFL’s have trouble lighting in outdoor applications. Bring on that global warming, I freezing here!

Warm temperatures: Applications such as ovens (both residential and commercial) get too hot for their usage. Campus tunnels that have steam pipes in them can get so hot that the CFL bases can warp and melt.

Short duration operations: I installed a set in my bathroom. I was finished with my business before they had any major output. Motion detector lights are another poor application as when an intruder comes by, you want full light output immediately.

With that said, we have noticed a huge difference between the various brands that are available on the market today. We found that Panasonic provided us with a product that “looked” more like an “A” type lamp and had very good life span. We used them to replace lamps in pendent light fixtures in restaurants. Notice that in this application, the lights are turned on and left on for hours at a time. The fixtures were failing due to the frequent lamp changes of the incandescent lamps and the “abuse” that took place with the handling of the fixture during the lamp change. The CFL product reduced the number of times this operation took place.

The Panasonic CFL products are no longer sold in the USA. With the introduction of so many CHEAP CFL products they choose to exit the USA market and sell the product in Europe. We paid between $10 and $15 per lamp for their 28-watt product with an “A” type looking diffuser. I still have a couple of them and I have saved them for my personal use in a couple of hallway fixtures in my home.

I personally use a Sylvania twist product in out range hood at our home. The light is on almost 24/7. We use it as our night-light and when we are cooking. As we have seven kids and we home school, that is why it is just left on 24/7. The Sylvania product lasts about 3 to 4 years in this application.

As you can see, CFL can be used successfully in some applications. But the product is limited as the engineers took a linier product and tried to shove it into an “A” type fixture.

All this time though, people forget that incandescent lamps were not banned. Just that lumen per watt standard was changed. Now incandescent lamps as we know them will go away. GE and the rest of them are working on incandescent lamps that will meet the new lumens per watt requirements. GE has said through their reps that they are on track to meet the guidelines in time.

Also, LED products are making headway. But the majority of the medium base screw applications do not have the correct photometrics to maximize the benefits of this light source. The big gains with this technology are realized when they design the fixture around the light output of the LED engine to maximize the light to where you want the light. Now that is change we can live with! As for the other changes, I’ll keep my guns, my Bible, the rest of the constitution, and my incandescent lamps; and you can keep those changes.

Sorry for being so detailed in my post.

A Very Merry Christmas to all of you.

I AM AT PRESENT REPLACING CFL AND MOST FLOURESCENT FIIXTURES IN THE HOME WITH ENERGY EFF. AND SAFE FOR THE ENVIROMENT,L.E.D.S.THEY TEND TO BE HIGHER IN PRICE ,BUT THEY HAVE MUCH LONGER LIFE SPAN THAN ANY OTHER LIGHT GENERATOR ON THE MARKET,AND SAVE ALOT MORE ENERGY THAN CFLS,OR FLOURESCENTS,AND SOME APPLICATIONS CAN HAVE UP TO 1.6 MIL. COLOR VAR.

Mike, I repect you for for your thorough analysis of issues relating to the trade, and the fact that you often question notions that most take for granted. in this case however, you have failed to give this issue proper consideration. You linked to a biased political diatribe and failed to reconcile the statements with scientific facts about CFLs.Energy conservation is desperately important to our national economy, security, and to environmental sustainability. I oppose a blanket ban on incandescents, but the very real advantages of CFLs deserves your your usual informed and open-minded analysis.

The only way "green" technology makes sense is when it saves us money. I am sick of politicians who pass recycling laws that give free raw material to their rich manufacturing contributors and make us pay to have it collected. This is just another attack on our wallets.

The CFLs are one way to both save on electric bills and save on the emissions generated from producing the electric. The minuscule amount of mercury contained in them is insignificant when compared to the huge amounts in common objects in every home like a fever thermometer. The same laws that require proper disposal of thermometers also require proper disposal of CFLs. Shall we ban thermometers?

A ban on incandescent lamps would backfire in some cases. One opf them is that motion detecting indoor wall switches are incompatible with CFL refit lamps. The indoor motion sensing switches require a load that is a closed circuit for both direct current and alternating when in the off state. This is because switch loops do not have a neutral and the motion switch needs to draw a small trickle of current through the load when in the so called off state. Electronic ballasts do not work in this application - only incandescent lamps and autotransformer ballasts will work.

The idea is to turn on a light in an entryway or walk-in closet for a short time and them automatically turn off the lamp both to save energy and as a convenience. One of the entrances to my sister's house is an alleged laundry room where manual light switches are absolutely useless - when passing through to the garage you are only in there for about 5 to 10 seconds. Similarly, her son Dean forgets to turn off closet lights.

One way around this is to connect an inductance in parallel with the fixture or electronic ballast. Please note that interposing a relay does not work because the "off" state current of the switch is enough to keep an ice cube relay closed. The shunt inductance needs to present a closed circuit equivalent to a 60 watt incandescent lamp that is in the "off" state.

Electronic ballasts and CFL refit lamps also pose a similar problem with lighted when off wall switches.

What would be even more wasteful is if somebody connects say a 60 watt electric heater in parallel with the fixture. There are little electric heaters that use a medium screw base for applications that require only a small amount of heat.

Have they addressed the harmonicic distortion issues that have created numorous problems in the past

my comment is that ..this..is a NEW low for Congress . .this is what our American governmne t is reduced to...wasting our time about LIGHTBULBS. sweet Jesus . .we have REAL problems and this isnt them

as an electrical contractor I could just perky if the federal government cracked open the Constitution and stuck to THAT business

Better yet , perhaps we should limit them to meeting but once a year that way they couldnt damage us for 11 months of the year

Shortly the next rather than God emotional junk science emergency will be GLOBAL FREEZING and they'll be wasting our time debating Laws forcing us to use INCANDESCENT light bulbs

Almost NO government would be better than this one

Mike, I agree about the Quality of light from CFL's. I am aware of the hazzards associated with breakage and disposal.

I have started using LED lighting. Very good quaility of light. The only problem is purchase price. A good LED replacement bulb is about 5-10 Times more expensive than standard bulbs.

They last a long long time averaging 5-10 years depending upon quality of the bulb. They use about 80-90% less energy than a standard bulb and burn alot cooler.

The biggest advantage I like is that they operate in winter conditions that normal CFL's simply won't start or work at all. The best LED's I have tested have been ones that are Surface Mounted Technology or CREE style LED bulbs.

Please allow me to RESTATE, CFLs are made in CHINA!!! Global "warming" has been reclassified now as "climate change"! All with NO conclusive evidence. I'm all for economy but if you turn the light off when you're finished you will probably save an equivilent amount of "energy" to offset any gains from "chinese" built lamps left on or forgotten. Conservation is not one item, it's a lifestyle we have forgotten in these good times!! I say back to basics, buy AMERICAN, GOD bless America and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't recall hearing the same objections to standard flourescent lighting in either residential or commercial occupancies. In fact, federal regulations have, for years, allowed these lamps to be disposed of as household trash. As for government insinuation into the right of all Americans to produce light as they wish, I remind that Congress has been legislating efficiency standards for flourescent lighting for decades. While I fully support the aim of eliminating the release of mercury into the environment, I wonder why CFL's are being singled out now. The technology promises an 80% reduction in energy use for lighting. One would assume that would also yield a similarly large reduction in the (substantial) mercury emissions from electrical generating plants, as well as reductions in other pollutants and greenhouse gases. Establishing a recycling routine for the lamps would be a small price to pay to for the potential environmental benefits. Anecdotally, having installed many hundreds of CFL products, I have yet to break one. I also council clients on the need to properly recycle them at end of life. Certainly, improved education and collection procedures should be established to allow the responsible use of the lamps. Better design and manufacturing techniques would eliminate the objectionable end-of-life failure modes described. Notably, not all manufacturers' CFLs exhibit over-heating failures. Hopefully, we will be able to replace CFLs with a more environmentally benign technology soon. Until then, we should focus on the overall ecological effects of our power consumption, and not give sway to knee-jerk reactions by legislators with questionable motives.

Is it against US Postal Service restrictions to send CFLs by mail? If not, I'll save the dead ones and send them to my senators and representatives and ask them to dispose of them legally.

My issue is the idea of proposing a solution rather than requirements, i.e., if the problem is we're using too much electricity to run lights, propose higher efficiency lights, not CFLs. CFLs are a solution, but so are LEDs, quantum dots, and other technologies that haven't been invented yet. Requiring CFLs stifles innovation. Like pointed out earlier, when solutions become policy, it can have unintended consequences (corn ethanol). I also like to take the opposite approach to these "problems". If it takes too much energy to light a bulb, don't squeeze the bulb, figure out how to make cheap abundant clean energy so it doesn't matter!

I do not plan on useing CFL in my house, That look like keeping a poisens snake in house because it look pearty

When millinos fo CFL bulbs are placed on line ithe increse in inductanc would cause the utility company to operate with a poor P.F.? The net cost of producing output be increased

Also, in some instances incandescent reflector is the best choice because it can be focused more efficiently or because halogen has the best color rendition.

Also, electronic ballasts both suffer from poweer quality problems and create power quality problems. In East Palestine, Ohio a new 277Y480 lighting system had 10% of the ballasts die during the first year. An aujtopsy of a dead ballast showed that it is underdesigned and misdesigned. Also, electronic ballasts have developed a reputation for tearing up both electriomechanical and electronic switches both by means of excessive inrush current and prolonged arcing of contacts when breaking a circuit.

has anyone driven down a major hyway lately .thousands of 250 ,400, even 1000 watt hps, mh, lights on car lots, gas stations, food marts .most of them with twice or more as needed. not to mention interstate on and off ramps .many if not most were older or worn out and were replaced with higher wattage fixtures .next time you are out for a drive look around and see where the energy is realy being wasted . mabe we shouldnt blame home lighting .go to youre nearby car lot and get a free tan

There are some instances such as inside the pit underneath a rock crusher where ANY lamp will only live for a week. It is only on a few hours a day when shoveling debris that missed the conveyor belt.

Sure, you could adapt fiber optic landscape lighting for this kind of work but then you have the restrike time of a metal halide lamp after power interruption unless an uninterruptible power supply is used.

What I am having a tough time understanding is that coal fired generators have a waste that contains some mercury and people are trying to get rid of the coal generators because of the "polution", but at the same time everyone is to use CFL's but I would have to believe that there will be more pollution from people throwing away their CFL's that are bad or perhaps they didn't like than from the generators, just due to the fact that people will not dispose of these CFL's properly. I've got a great idea for residential lighting, Turn off the standard incandesant light bulbs when they are not needed and save even more mercury from polluting our earth.

Mike,

I agree with your position on CFL's. In some places where concentrated heat or extremely long life are important, I'll consider. But as to the rest of the house, when I see the chandeliers in the White House converted, then I'll take the situation more serioulsy.

I can't believe you have not found any ccfls to work for you mike holt. This seams to be a good energy saving ticket. I do not know for sure but, you could probably conclude more mercury is released from burning the additional coal. They are progressing have faith!

If I'm not mistaken, they are only made in China! I agree Mike, I don't like the tone of the light either. I don't use them in my house, there have been several cases of catastrophic failure resulting in fires. I'm going to wait for the LED lamps. Even less power, better lighting and cam be manufactured in the USA.

The future is LED I have seen some very nice small ones. They use 1.5 watts and are about = to a 40 watt bulb. When they get cost competitive I think they will replace CFL and incandescent bulbs.

After arriving home my wife asked to look at the roast in the slow cooker. It was a sick greenish color but did smell good. Being cautious, we dumped the dinner and returned the roast to the grocery store and the clerk cheerfully refunded our money. Later in the week, I was cooking and noticed everthing on the cooktop area looked greenish. I then noticed my wife had replaced the lamp in the hood with a fluorescent. Replaced it with an incandescent...problem solved and we both had a good laugh from it all.

All fluorescent bulbs and HID lights contain mercury. They contain so little mercury versus the life they give that you could absorb all the mercury from every CFL your house would use in your lifetime and not get sick.

We converted 4 Denny's restaurants here and lowered the lighting electric bill by 461 percent. As mentioned above we will put many times less mercury in the disposal system that the power plants will in the same 5 to 10 years.

Don't buy Walmart CFLs unless you can read color index information. I sell only Sylvania's

This is the first I have seen your opinion on the CFL's, I am also up in the air with them! I am always very hesitant when the government dictates things to us! I beleive this is lawmakers hopping on the green / global warming wagon, just in case it does exist! I am all for energy saving, but not in this political fashion.

Thx Mike for your input on this subject

And this not even address the issue of whether these compact flouresents will work on circuits that have a light dimmer.

The CFLs sold at WalMart have a low power factor of 0.4 (I've been told) I have converted nearly all my screw in lamps to CFL, including table lamps. All those work well, with a resulting large decrease in my electrical use. The ones I don't like are the BR30 flood replacements, they are slow to come on. The color temperature on the newer CFLs are much better. In the last year there the efficiency of LEDS is now a bit better than that of CFLs, but the price is not affordable.

I think that the mercury content is only a minor problem. I have put a few in table lamps and am satisified. Imagine those squirelly things in the light bar over my vanity. The entrance coach lights dim to 50% by motion detector. Ihaven't seen a CFL that could do this. What about my oven, refrigerator, range, range hood, bathroom exhaust fans and ceiling fans? I don't think they are or should be a universal, across-the-board replacement.

There is misinformation and paranoia about the amount of mercury in CFLs. Here is a statement from the Environmental Defense website that puts things in perspective:

"CF bulbs contain far less mercury than in other items in the house: CF bulbs (4 mg), thermometers (500 mg), older thermostats (3,000 mg). Plus, using CF bulbs actually prevents more mercury from being released into the air by power plants. A power plant emits about 10 mg of mercury to produce the electricity needed to run an incandescent bulb, compared to only 2.4 mg of mercury to run a CF bulb for the same amount of time."

Of course, there are good ones and bad ones. Some have good color and long life; others do not. In any case, we need to phase out incandescent lamps if we are going to make any real progress toward improving energy efficiency.

I have taken all the CFL's out of my house and do not recommend them . If any one has questions of why simply check out the results of the State of Maine's E.P.A. study on the mercury released from breaking several different brands of bulb The results are not a pretty picture, yes they save money , but at what cost to our environment, and our health? As for the other issue of the government making almost all incandescent light bulbs unavailable after 2012. The replacement for CFL's and incandescent bulbs, the LED/SSL lighting unit is already here, and soon to be released for nationwide sale! Check out www.goeken.com to see what is coming for all of us. A light bulb with a life expectancy of 5 years, with a break resistant poly shell, and is full range dimmable and contains NO mercury. The future is here and coming to stores soon.

many of these are downright dangerous as well. if you search the net you will find that when these lamps fail many times they do so catastrophicly. ie, they flash. sometimes this flash is enough to ignite surrounding materials. i personally have had some flash in days or months. however in my instance the only damage was to the bulb.

rong111

If You Tube is a problem, you might consider, asking us to break into groups,say everyone with last name A-G to only go to you tube the first half hour of odd hours.example; Bill Black would log into YT between 1:00 and 1:30 or 3:00 etc then those between H-N would use it from 1:30 to 2:00 so on. Just A thought.

Can some tell me why the government continues to reach into matters it has no business being involved in? Passing laws to outlaw technologies in an effort to advance technology? Tax credits and incentives, maybe? Why are government officials acting as if they are engineers? Shouldn't the green movement be the responsibility of engineers and architects? I'll stop here.

This sounds very similar in nature to the big push to move people towards E-85, BioDiesel, and the other "green fuel" alternatives. Short-term it looks like a great idea, but the long-term costs aren't fully understood or disclosed. Half the world is starving, the other half is running out of clean water, and we're using corn and clean water (very inefficiently) to run our cars.

The clip's also available on a site similar to YouTube called LiveLeak.com:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ca8_1214482120

You might try that when YouTube fails.

Obviously using a CFL is not a good idea. As I see it the biggest problem here is another nick in our freedom. Every day it seems that we lose a little more. Where is our freedom of choice going? It's going out the window with our jobs and American made products. Soon there will be none of either of those two necessities.

I have replaced some, but not all of the incandescent lamps with CFL's. Most are in recessed down lights. I have not noticed any premature end-of-life issues with the CFL's.

One thing we should keep in mind is the way we use the lamps. With incandescents, we are accustomed to turning them on and off with great frequency. I believe with CFL's this will cause an early failure, as noted by some who have posted. But CFL's do have that pesky disposal problem for homeowners, however for those who have altered their lifestyle to include recycling we can deal with proper disposal. Partcularly when communities step up their recycling programs.

These are my own observations with the use of CFL's, and something I think we should be mindful of. I also will switch to LED's as soon as the price comes down some.

A few years ago My company decided to use these flourecent lights in areas as warnings to replace some old regular 40 watt bulbs. We installed new fixtures to the tune of 300 each It took the average electrician 3 hours to dismantle and replace each fixture plus conduit ,flex and other misc equipment. these lights were all located in hard to reach areas. These were of the pin type base suppose to be more sturdy , mounted in upright or downward positions only. We have had many failures in these light bulbs, some getting so hot they destroy the bases of the fixture. They do stay on 24 /7 but we will never gain back enough money to psy for them. The bulbs have smoked, melted or in a couple cases broken. Good luck with making this a law or requirement.

If you check you will probably find that the congressman is illuminated by fluorescent fixtures in the house chambers . These lamps conatin more mercury than CFL's and we have the same disposal rules but he doesn't address that. CFL's still contain less mercury than what is emitted by a power plant for the extra energy to burn a comprable incadescent lamp. Finally look where the congressman is from, Home of Exxon