This article was posted 03/18/2008 and is most likely outdated.

Master Label for ESE?
 

 

Topic - Lightning
Subject - Master Label for ESE?

March 18, 2008
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Master Label for ESE?

 

Does the UL master label provide a false sense of security to the owner of the installed site?

If UL labels only provide assurance to the manufacturing, materials, and installation, one could easily conclude that the effectiveness installed system should protect their facility. The reason I bring this up is that I have seen ESE devices with a UL manufacturing label on them. Hence it would be possible to acquire a master label for an installation with ESE devices.

It would seem that using the UL Master Label could give a false sense of assurance to the unknowing. I would suspect there are more building owners and contractors out there who lack the expertise to distinguish the difference.

Bruce Doerle
Director of Engineering
WUCF, Orlando

_____________________________________________

Co-moderator's Comments:

As was done with the original posting on this industry-practice topic, I referred Mr. Doerle's follow-up comments to Mrs. Jennifer Morgan of East Coast Lightning Equipment Inc. Her reply is given hereafter.

Abdul M. Mousa

___________________________________________

As stated previously, UL maintains two separate lightning protection standards- UL96 which governs the materials used for lightning protection and UL96A which governs system design and installation. UL gives an ESE terminal a listing because the terminal itself meets the size and material requirements of a single conventional air terminal. UL does not give labels for ESE systems, because the installations do not meet the requirements of UL96A.

UL is essentially listing ESE terminals with the expectation that these devices will be placed every 20 feet around the perimeter, which of course they aren't. It would be nice if UL would make this clearer.

ESE vendors make a lot of noise about their system components being UL listed, and they omit the fact that their installed systems fail to meet UL requirements. It is not possible to get a UL Master Label for an ESE system, and the UL labels on the components of an ESE system is definitely a source of purposeful confusion.

I do think that the UL Master Label offers a building owner a real sense of security. It is a true third party inspection and UL is quite rigorous in verifying compliance these days. If a building owner is tricked into believing that their ESE system is UL compliant - that is a different story.

Jennifer Morgan

This information was submitted by Abdul Mousa from the Lightning Safety & Power Quality Issues group on Yahoo. To learn more about this group click here.

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Comments

  • What is an ESE?

    Kevin Southward
    Reply to this comment

  • ther is no trick, with the right forces you find an answer and without the right force you don't. Is it that hard to realize in theory or are scientist's finally considering that it's not alway's a formula, equazion, or history's rule of theory because sometimes things are so misspelled that the are forever unreadable by code and therefore have to be read in real terms of life

    Scott Allen West
    Reply to this comment

  • To respond to Craig Fogt and Blade, ESE stands for early streamer emission. Streamers are natural electric discharges produced by objects on the ground, such as trees and roofs, when the surrounding voltage is raised due to an impending lightning strike. The streamers travel up in the direction of the lightning bolt. ESE system manufacturers claim they can produce streamers at an earlier time interval than the natural streamers and produce an area of protection of up to 100 meters. Thus they claim that a single ESE terminal can protect a large building or area. These claims have been proven wrong by lightning scientists. The scientists say that the ESE claims can not be reconciled by the laws of physics.

    The Conference on High Voltage Electric Systems (CIGRE) also does not agree with the enhanced protection radius that is claimed by the ESE manufacturers. The NFPA conducted a study on the ESE and found that the ESE had failed to capture lightning strikes.

    All the arguments that are advance by the manufacturers of ESE technology were heard and rejected by an Arizona court in 2005.

    Bob Martino
    Reply to this comment

  • When visiting an engineering firm in Miami, they showed me a certificate from one of the ESE guys stating that their device provided a 202 meter area of protection.

    John

    John Howard
    Reply to this comment

  • Those that sell Snake Oil, ESE Systems in this case, learned a long time ago that Snake Oil is the best possible lubriacant available to run the machine that removes money from their customers wallet. The machine itself is also very unique, it is one of the few availabe that will leave no residue, the substance called value.

    John West, Sr.
    Reply to this comment

  • I hope I am asking for others when I ask what does ESE stand for? I have helped install Master Label lightning protection systems, One job in Charleston,SC, UL inspector asked us what our interpretation of the cone of radius protection was where one roof level drops one floor from the highest level. i thought he was testing us until he said he wasn't clear himself. Educated guesses or true sense of security with a Master Label?

    blade
    Reply to this comment

  • What is the difference between the two systems.

    Craig Fogt
    Reply to this comment

  • Hello, here is a question that has hounded me for a longtime. The air freshener devices that are sold today that allows you to plug things into it. If used in the kitchen are they rated to supply 20 amp loads? They do not have the right angle slot on the receptacle.

    Thanks for your time and have a great day

    Chuck Lencioni Geneva Illinois
    Reply to this comment

  • Although Mrs. Jennifer Morgan's comment is exactly on target, I am surprised that no one asked UL directly. In this regard, UL is very responsive to all interested parties and even has a regulatory services group to help with these types of questions. The UL standards in question, 96 for components, and 96A for installation are such that a UL Master Label also indicates compliance with NFPA 780. It is possible that certain UL 96 components may be used in a variety of end use applications including ESE systems (which would not be eligible for a Master Label because they would not comply with 96A.) Lastly, to mistake a UL Mark on a component for a Master Label Certificate is in some ways no different than mistaking the old power supply cord or cord set "bracelets" for the entire equipment's Listing Mark. Hope this sheds a little light on the subject.

    Heinz R.
    Reply to this comment

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